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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 4:53:29 GMT -5
Neither the RNC nor the DNC get it.
Hillary is about to be indicted, and instead of "Hail to the Chief," they will be playing, "Jailhouse Rock" for her.
Ten Cruz is about as attractive as Benito Mussolini. The establishment hates Trump but if they think they can control him, they will back him. That's about 50/50. Trump can schmooze but I doubt he can be controlled.
The only one there who really understand what is going on is Sanders, who said, "This is a Revolution!"
Yup.
Obama talked about change too, but he was a liar. Or he became corrupted by the system like everyone else. If he protects Hillary, he should be put in jail too. Obama's legacy is ineptitude. Ask yourself, is the world in better shape today than it was when he took office?
When Hillary gets indicted, the baton should pass to Bernie, but it won't. The DNC does not like him. They will put in a Doofus like Joe Biden, who as long as he smiles and keeps his mouth shut will attract a lot of votes. If they steal the election from Bernie, that will be the beginning of the real REVOLUTION.
Same if the RNC screws with Trump.
I see at least one third party forming. Ideally with Trump and Bernie heading the ticket. Finally two people not tied to the corrupt and dysfunctional system that is American Politics.
I am a big fan of Oswald Spengler. Never heard of him? He wrote in pre World War II Germany about the downfall of Western Civilization. He has been thought of as a NAZI sympathizer, but if you actually read his book, The Decline of the West, you will see he he recognized the Nazis as one of the signs of the upcoming end of German civilization. Everything Spengler predicted came true. And is still true.
What rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born.
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 8:40:37 GMT -5
Atticusfinch and pinotbear please have the stones to say WHY you dislike my posts, I am getting tired of your dislikes and suggest that you ought to have the guts to respond directly and tell me precisely why you dislike this. I frankly don't give a hoot if you like or dislike what I post, I will post it anyway, But I think it is a little gutless just to say "I dislike it." WHY?
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Post by atticusfinch on Apr 30, 2016 8:46:31 GMT -5
This is one of those all too frequent election cycles where there is no candidate that I can truly support. Hillary is too calculating, corrupt, pandering & divisive and while it is sometimes fun to remember our youthful exuberant ignorance, Bernie never managed to mature beyond those days of personal growth. In my estimation their policies are damaging to the american people's best interest and most damaging to those who most need a hand up. Ted Cruz is too rigid and his public persona too unlikeable, I'll leave it at that. John Kasich reminds me of the kid at the tiny tots soccer game that isn't in the moving scrum of little ones chasing the ball... he's the little guy off in the corner of the field looking at a beetle climb through a patch of clover with wonderment. Then there is Donald Trump. ugh... Trump.
This election cycle was set up to be as close to a slam dunk for the Republicans as can happen in politics and what do they do... they chose one of the most nasty, childish, bullying, pandering, thin-skinned, autocratic, uniformed, and unelectable general election candidate one could find. They might as well chosen Al Sharton or Louis Farrakhan to be their champion as they could also 'expand' the GOP in ugly ways too. The choice is a staggering in its self immolation without the benefit of a noble cause to call for the sacrifice... a monument to ignorance. Instead of doing what Reagan did in reaching out to the best instincts of the white blue collar middle class voter, Trump teases out their basest, most vile instincts. The GOP is dead. Trump supporters often threaten to leave the GOP if they don't get there way... what is rarely heard is that an equal percentage of GOPers will leave the party if he is the candidate as they assess him to be even more damaging to our country than Hillary.. and that's going some... About a third of the GOPers are looking to reform under a new party if Trump gets the nod. Most are looking for a new Federalist party to be their new home.
It's ironic that you chose to mention Mussolini as good ol' Benito is a hero and model for The Donald... and the comparison is vastly more apt when made with Trump than any other candidate in modern times. For many in the GOP this is a moral issue... an issue of conscience... a moment to hold fast to one's principles by standing in opposition to a threat to all of us. I want to be one of those who can say that I did what I could to stop Trump.... I would lose my integrity to do otherwise.
AF
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Post by semper on Apr 30, 2016 9:25:33 GMT -5
And I'm a big Hillary fan. But I don't discuss either:
1. Politics
or
2. Baseball
on this board.
But if others want to, fine with me. And this is place for it
So long for now...
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 9:32:24 GMT -5
This is one of those all too frequent election cycles where there is no candidate that I can truly support. Hillary is too calculating, corrupt, pandering & divisive and while it is sometimes fun to remember our youthful exuberant ignorance, Bernie never managed to mature beyond those days of personal growth. In my estimation their policies are damaging to the american people's best interest and most damaging to those who most need a hand up. Ted Cruz is too rigid and his public persona too unlikeable, I'll leave it at that. John Kasich reminds me of the kid at the tiny tots soccer game that isn't in the moving scrum of little ones chasing the ball... he's the little guy off in the corner of the field looking at a beetle climb through a patch of clover with wonderment. Then there is Donald Trump. ugh... Trump. This election cycle was set up to be as close to a slam dunk for the Republicans as can happen in politics and what do they do... they chose one of the most nasty, childish, bullying, pandering, thin-skinned, autocratic, uniformed, and unelectable general election candidate one could find. They might as well chosen Al Sharton or Louis Farrakhan to be their champion as they could also 'expand' the GOP in ugly ways too. The choice is a staggering in its self immolation without the benefit of a noble cause to call for the sacrifice... a monument to ignorance. Instead of doing what Reagan did in reaching out to the best instincts of the white blue collar middle class voter, Trump teases out their basest, most vile instincts. The GOP is dead. Trump supporters often threaten to leave the GOP if they don't get there way... what is rarely heard is that an equal percentage of GOPers will leave the party if he is the candidate as they assess him to be even more damaging to our country than Hillary.. and that's going some... About a third of the GOPers are looking to reform under a new party if Trump gets the nod. Most are looking for a new Federalist party to be their new home. It's ironic that you chose to mention Mussolini as good ol' Benito is a hero and model for The Donald... and the comparison is vastly more apt when made with Trump than any other candidate in modern times. For many in the GOP this is a moral issue... an issue of conscience... a moment to hold fast to one's principles by standing in opposition to a threat to all of us. I want to be one of those who can say that I did what I could to stop Trump.... I would lose my integrity to do otherwise. AF You will probably be shocked to hear that I agree with almost everything you say. However, there is one important difference. The time for politics as usual is gone. Sure, I would prefer a Philosopher King type, in the Platonic model, but that ain't what we got. We got Trump and Sanders, and frankly, when Hillary is indicted, which she will be, and I am betting on soon, Sanders will be the only candidate with close to enough votes to say that he is the people's choice. If they try to put in that brainless idiot Biden, and steal the election from Bernie, then truly Bernie MUST take his crowd and leave the Democratic Party. If you stop Trumpers are successful, I would hope Trump would do the same. Leave the Republican Party. I guess the point I differ with you on is that you Stop-Trumpers are the ones trying to destroy democracy, and you may succeed. If Trump gets the most votes, he should be the nominee. I think that is true whether you approve of him or not. The thing that I like about both Trump and Bernie is that they are not part of the establishment and won't do things the way they have always been done. I am not a socialist, but rather a fiscal conservative. Nonetheless, I would vote for Bernie in a heartbeat if he ran against Cruz. Ever since the evil LBJ, who tried to kill me but who succeeded in killing 50,000 other young men and women, I have not been a fan of the establishment. Finally, Eugene McCarthy didn't make it but Trump or Bernie may. I can't wait for Hillary to be led off in handcuffs. Bernie vs Trump would give this country a choice between two candidates who will decidedly not be "business as usual." Finally, Trump is far more politically incorrect than I am, but I admire political incorrectness. The fact that his brashness appeals to types we both would probably call low life, is immaterial. In each election the low life has to vote for someone, and I am sure neither Cruz nor Hillary would refuse their votes. I have hope for Trump. Hope that he will end a lot of practices that do not help anybody, like Meat and Dairy subsidies, paying farmers not to grow crops, boondoggle projects designed to get the local Congressman votes, etc. Our government is too big and spends too much money. Over 50% of what I make goes to taxes. I am sick of it. I am sick of paying congressmen a special pension and health care system that most Americans cannot afford. Frankly, I have such distain for Congressmen, especially those from this state, that I would deny them any medical care if it were up to me. This country and this system are corrupt. We need to reform everything. |
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 9:35:12 GMT -5
And I'm a big Hillary fan. But I don't discuss either: 1. Politics or 2. Baseball on this board. But if others want to, fine with me. And this is place for it So long for now... What do you discuss? From your Avatar, seems like you might discuss religion? I don't mind discussing that. I am a deist, and I mostly dislike organized religions, particularly dogmatic ones. Anyway, I am up for it if you want do discuss that instead of baseball or politics. |
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Post by semper on Apr 30, 2016 9:46:33 GMT -5
On this board, ironic though it may seem, I discuss basketball, and I'm a huge fan of UConn women's basketball, and of the WNBA too. Watching the Olympics women's team is empyrean. I'm a scholar and shy by nature.
That's it. Dull I know.
Bye for now...I should just stay off OT.
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Post by atticusfinch on Apr 30, 2016 9:48:13 GMT -5
I would encourage Trump and his supporters to leave the GOP and start their own party. Go for it.
AF
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 10:14:46 GMT -5
On this board, ironic though it may seem, I discuss basketball, and I'm a huge fan of UConn women's basketball, and of the WNBA too. Watching the Olympics women's team is empyrean. I'm a scholar and shy by nature. That's it. Dull I know. Bye for now...I should just stay off OT. What are you a scholar of? Please! I am always interested in speaking with an expert on something, almost anything. |
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 10:18:32 GMT -5
I would encourage Trump and his supporters to leave the GOP and start their own party. Go for it. AF As you correctly pointed out, SOMEONE is going to leave the party, and I think the same will happen on the Democratic side, and I truly believe that will be a good thing. If there are 4 parties, there would have to be a coalition to govern. The Democrats and Republicans are never going to agree on anything. By the way, I voted for Ross Perot. He would have been a great President. |
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Post by atticusfinch on Apr 30, 2016 10:24:10 GMT -5
Trump's nation first approach and Bernie's Socialist approach suggests the name of the new unified party for the revolutionist would be called the National Socialist party... or is that already taken.
AF
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Post by Icebear on Apr 30, 2016 10:38:24 GMT -5
Trump's nation first approach and Bernie's Socialist approach suggests the name of the new unified party for the revolutionist would be called the National Socialist party... or is that already taken. AF Bernie's approach is incorrectly identified as socialist since he never suggests government control/ownership of manufacturing which is the primary mark of socialism. In terms of function it is more like the democratic socialist structures of Europe, Scandinavia, Australia and New Zealand which are capitalist market driven economies established over a threshold of public services. Above that threshold a full competitive market exists. Finland in particular has been interesting because of its national investment in education and the vibrant entrepreneurial growth that resulted. One of the problems of the present flavor of American capitalism is the reduction of competition through consolidation of the economy and the market into fewer and fewer hands like end game Monopoly where one person ends up with everything there is no money driving any play and transactions in the game. Open market capitalism has been traded for the corporatism of fascism. Both parties have colluded in this deterioration to corporatism. |
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 10:43:12 GMT -5
Trump's nation first approach and Bernie's Socialist approach suggests the name of the new unified party for the revolutionist would be called the National Socialist party... or is that already taken. AF Sorry, it's taken. Bernie is probably the most honest person in Congress. Trump knows how to make money. Most politicians, Like Cruz or Clinton have never had a real job. (Yeah, I know she worked in a law firm, and got in some pretty deep doodoo there too, because of her ethics.) Bernie never has had a real job. Trump has never held public office. Can't you see the Yin and Yang of that? |
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 10:47:58 GMT -5
Trump's nation first approach and Bernie's Socialist approach suggests the name of the new unified party for the revolutionist would be called the National Socialist party... or is that already taken. AF Bernie's approach is incorrectly identified as socialist since he never suggests government control/ownership of manufacturing which is the primary mark of socialism. In terms of function it is more like the democratic socialist structures of Europe, Scandinavia, Australia and New Zealand which are capitalist market driven economies established over a threshold of public services. Above that threshold a full competitive market exists. Finland in particular has been interesting because of its national investment in education and the vibrant entrepreneurial growth that resulted. One of the problems of the present flavor of American capitalism is the reduction of competition through consolidation of the economy and the market into fewer and fewer hands like end game Monopoly where one person ends up with everything there is no money driving any play and transactions in the game. Open market capitalism has been traded for the corporatism of fascism. Both parties have colluded in this deterioration to corporatism. In my opinion, you are absolutely correct. I don't disagree with a single thing you said. So what kind of proposals do you think Bernie would try to put through? |
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Post by Icebear on Apr 30, 2016 11:01:22 GMT -5
To add a thought on Bernie's views of government's role in the market. He supports regulations enabling persons ability to make their own decisions on how to participate in the marketplace. Labeling organic foods and GMOs are and example of this. He supports the idea of diversifying the marketplace by limiting consolidations, such as, has occurred in media in the last twenty-five years. He believes that tax funds should largely be used to invest in infrastructure that benefits long term goals like highways and bridges, high speed rail, etc. Investment that is essentially a long term capital investment not short term bandaids for banks. He believes regulation should limit businesses ability externalize the costs of pollution they create in the form of toxic chemicals or carbon.
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Post by atticusfinch on Apr 30, 2016 11:10:29 GMT -5
What we have here is two edges of the extreme moving so far as to join the circle on the backend. I never thought that I'd see that in my lifetime. Life is a wonder.
Ice, Socialism is a broader approach than that which you describe... your description aligns much better with communism than socialism. the three legs of socialism that are common to most definitions of socialism are: a collusion of large corporate interests, union interests and government interests. It's that triad that forms socialism. I understand the reticence to use the word "socialist" but dressing it up doesn't actually make it any less damaging to the individual.
Tribble, if Bernie is to be taken at his word... he will complete the nationalization of the healthcare system, nationalize the educational system and nationalize the employee compensation system thereby controlling the purse strings of business.
AF
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 12:13:48 GMT -5
To add a thought on Bernie's views of government's role in the market. He supports regulations enabling persons ability to make their own decisions on how to participate in the marketplace. Labeling organic foods and GMOs are and example of this. He supports the idea of diversifying the marketplace by limiting consolidations, such as, has occurred in media in the last twenty-five years. He believes that tax funds should largely be used to invest in infrastructure that benefits long term goals like highways and bridges, high speed rail, etc. Investment that is essentially a long term capital investment not short term bandaids for banks. He believes regulation should limit businesses ability externalize the costs of pollution they create in the form of toxic chemicals or carbon. I am in favor of all of the above, as well as, a carbon tax. Things that affect all of us are within the scope of government. Are you a fan of Bernie? |
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Post by tribble on Apr 30, 2016 12:29:22 GMT -5
What we have here is two edges of the extreme moving so far as to join the circle on the backend. I never thought that I'd see that in my lifetime. Life is a wonder. Ice, Socialism is a broader approach than that which you describe... your description aligns much better with communism than socialism. the three legs of socialism that are common to most definitions of socialism are: a collusion of large corporate interests, union interests and government interests. It's that triad that forms socialism. I understand the reticence to use the word "socialist" but dressing it up doesn't actually make it any less damaging to the individual. Tribble, if Bernie is to be taken at his word... he will complete the nationalization of the healthcare system, nationalize the educational system and nationalize the employee compensation system thereby controlling the purse strings of business. AF AF, as you correctly guessed I am no fan of Obamacare or any even more grotesque form of it. I strongly believe in personal responsibility for one's health. Thus I object to paying for chronic diseases caused by knowing and deliberate abuse of one's body. Things like smoking, drinking to excess, drugs and the SAD (standard American Diet, i.e. with lots of meat, and sugar and very little veggies except French Fried potatoes.) I am a vegetarian in my 70s and very few people who don't know my age can guess that. I also work out, upper body and aerobics, on average every other day. I spend my own money and my wife and I spend time preparing vegan food from scratch. No preservatives. We buy local and organic. I personally have nothing against genetically modified food, nor does my wife, but every organic farmer I know of uses heritage seeds. If people choose to smoke, take drugs, eat at MacD's or some other meat-centric restaurant, that is their business. I would make all drugs legal. But I would not have the state pay for food subsidies or medical care for people who OD. I have the utmost sympathy for people who are born with a problem or disabled by their own genetics. I would definitely provide them with all the health care they could use. I also believe in homeschooling which I have done with two kids with tremendous results, and vouchers for poor kids who want to go to suburban or magnet schools. I might be talked into providing preventive care for everyone, however. |
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