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Post by swash on Jun 6, 2024 7:51:05 GMT -5
For the summer, which pairs of players are you "watching"? We're not talking either one or the other. More like who might gain an edge or erase one already perceived.
Feel free to expound or refute some of the thoughts already shared about the natural matchups between Arnold and Chen at PG or Al Alfy and Brady at Center.
I've been pondering Shade v Ziebell. Will the experience from so many starts and minutes with the top group lead to an impressive sophomore jump for Ash? Will the rookie shoot lights out and force Geno to find her more minutes? Can Allie put together enough defense to earn some trust from the staff and teammates?
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Post by rockymtblue2 on Jun 6, 2024 7:57:42 GMT -5
Is Allie known as all offense or is it just a frosh thing?
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Post by bulkey on Jun 6, 2024 8:18:10 GMT -5
Allie v. Ashlynn is a natural, to be sure. Allie's the better shooter and maybe quicker but Ashlynn is just so incredibly well-disciplined and knows the system. Effectively, however, it's competition for backing up Azzi, whenever she's ready. My money is on Ashlynn.
But at least as interesting is Kaitlyn vs. KK. If KK had been a better decision-maker last year, to my mind this would be no-contest. She's a far better defender and pushes the ball up the court better. Neither is a particularly good shooter (though likely Kaitlyn was being doubled at Princeton). But Kaitlyn is a coach on the court.
I'm gonna duck after I write this: Paige needs some guidance out there. She still sometimes lapses into uncertainty or even passivity. Kaitlyn won't let her do that. She knows her role far better than does KK and will push Paige to be Paige. She'll also willingly distribute to Azzi as well.
I think Carla pointed Kaitlyn to UConn so that she could develop different skills to play pro-ball, to be more the distributer than the shooter (which she needed to be at Princeton). And I think that's what Geno anticipates needing especially when Azzi returns.
But KK is a terrific defender and more uptempo...
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Post by swash on Jun 6, 2024 8:27:18 GMT -5
Is Allie known as all offense or is it just a frosh thing? Most known as a three point assassin. She has a surprisingly quick release and solid efficiency. Her ability (and willingness) to pass is under-rated, too. |
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Post by chicagogg on Jun 6, 2024 9:07:10 GMT -5
Allie v. Ashlynn is a natural, to be sure. Allie's the better shooter and maybe quicker but Ashlynn is just so incredibly well-disciplined and knows the system. Effectively, however, it's competition for backing up Azzi, whenever she's ready. My money is on Ashlynn. But at least as interesting is Kaitlyn vs. KK. If KK had been a better decision-maker last year, to my mind this would be no-contest. She's a far better defender and pushes the ball up the court better. Neither is a particularly good shooter (though likely Kaitlyn was being doubled at Princeton). But Kaitlyn is a coach on the court. I'm gonna duck after I write this: Paige needs some guidance out there. She still sometimes lapses into uncertainty or even passivity. Kaitlyn won't let her do that. She knows her role far better than does KK and will push Paige to be Paige. She'll also willingly distribute to Azzi as well. I think Carla pointed Kaitlyn to UConn so that she could develop different skills to play pro-ball, to be more the distributer than the shooter (which she needed to be at Princeton). And I think that's what Geno anticipates needing especially when Azzi returns. But KK is a terrific defender and more uptempo... Don't be ducking on that Paige comment, because you are spot on! |
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Post by huskyharper on Jun 6, 2024 12:44:29 GMT -5
Chen vs KK is where I'm wondering. As good as KK is, she's still a little out of control on offense. Her "d" is good (she's so quick), but unless she makes a huge jump this summer, I see Chen driving the bus for more minutes. Having a coach on the floor (Paige aside) is an upside not to be frowned on. And I can see Chen having the ability to drive our Very talented team where they want to go. She has the maturity. Hopefully the gravitas too.
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Post by linkster on Jun 6, 2024 14:59:03 GMT -5
For the summer, which pairs of players are you "watching"? We're not talking either one or the other. More like who might gain an edge or erase one already perceived. Feel free to expound or refute some of the thoughts already shared about the natural matchups between Arnold and Chen at PG or Al Alfy and Brady at Center. I've been pondering Shade v Ziebell. Will the experience from so many starts and minutes with the top group lead to an impressive sophomore jump for Ash? Will the rookie shoot lights out and force Geno to find her more minutes? Can Allie put together enough defense to earn some trust from the staff and teammates? Where did you see this? The only center listed on the roster is El Alfy and from what I've seen in videos she is more of a stretch 4. For the most part what some call a center in the woman's game is in fact a 4 who has no outside game and limited mobility. Think Courtney Paris. Most college posts end up as pf's in the W if they develop an outside shot. In fact I see the center position disappearing in the womens' game, replaced by mobile 4's who can post up but also extend to the perimeter. Watching a Euro game and it's next to impossible to figure out everyone's position. The best frontcourt setup in recent years was when Edwards, ONO and Edwards rotated. IMO none of them were centers. Right now Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Strong and Patterson, all strong front court players but not a center in the bunch. And that isn't a bad thing. Geno always talks about positionless basketball and he has a roster that can play like that. After rereading this post I deleted what's below because it was a little off-topic but I saw that it had been responded to so I'm re-posting it for clarity
On another point unrelated to the above post I see that some feel Bueckers has been too passive, too uncertain. To me the only problem Bueckers has had at UConn is that when she has been healthy she has played out of position for almost her entire career. As a freshmen she had to take over the SG role because the seniors couldn't shoot 3's very well. Then she had to step aside for Muhl because pg was the only position Muhl could play. And now some want her to become Caitlin Clark, because that's what "too passive" is all about. They want Bueckers putting up headline scoring stats every game. "Take 25 shots a game Paige"? BS!! Bueckers has a tougher job this season than shooting. UConn has an amazing array of talent this year. But there are four 1st year players, a transfer and a bunch who missed most of last season. Someone has to develop chemistry in this team of strangers. Should it be a new transfer? A rising sophomore? Or a 5th year NPOY? Is there a better pg in the world than Bueckers? I say no but every year I read fans saying she should play off the ball. It's like suggesting that Aaron Judge should pitch because the Yankees need a relief pitcher and others can hit home runs. Since her freshman year it's always been Bueckers who had to fill holes in the team at the 2,3, & 4. Well there are no holes this year. In fact they are at least 2 deep everywhere. PG is where she helps the team the most and it's what she loves to do.
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Post by swash on Jun 6, 2024 15:35:19 GMT -5
For the summer, which pairs of players are you "watching"? We're not talking either one or the other. More like who might gain an edge or erase one already perceived. Feel free to expound or refute some of the thoughts already shared about the natural matchups between Arnold and Chen at PG or Al Alfy and Brady at Center. I've been pondering Shade v Ziebell. Will the experience from so many starts and minutes with the top group lead to an impressive sophomore jump for Ash? Will the rookie shoot lights out and force Geno to find her more minutes? Can Allie put together enough defense to earn some trust from the staff and teammates? Where did you see this? The only center listed on the roster is El Alfy and from what I've seen in the film she is more of a stretch 4. For the most part what some call a center in the woman's game is in fact a 4 who has no outside game and limited mobility. Think Courtney Paris. Most college posts end up as pf's in the W. The best setup in recent years was when Edwards, ONO and Edwards rotated. IMO none of them are centers. This year Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Patterson & Strong. Assuming they are all available they will rotate. From what I have seen, read or heard Strong is a lot more than Right now Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Strong and Patterson, all strong front court players. On another point I see that some feel Bueckers has been too passive, too uncertain. To me the only problem Bueckers has had at UConn is that when she has been healthy she has played out of position for almost her entire career. As a freshmen she had to take over the SG role because the seniors couldn't shoot 3's very well. Then she had to step aside for Muhl because pg was the only position Muhl could play. And now some want her to become Caitlin Clark, because that's what "too passive" is all about. They want Bueckers putting up headline scoring stats every game. "Take 25 shots a game Paige"? BS!! Bueckers has a tougher job this season than shooting. UConn has an amazing array of talent this year. But there are 4 1st year players, a transfer and a bunch who missed most of last season. Someone has to run this team. Should it be a transfer? Is there a better pg in the world than Bueckers? I say no but every year I read fans saying she should play off the ball. It's like suggesting that Aaron Judge should pitch because the Yankees need a relief pitcher and others can hit home runs. I agree that they're likely fours in the W, but on this team Ice and Jana will mostly be centers. Freshman year, Paige toggled PG to Wing. Christyn was almost exclusively the SG. This is a nit. Your point remains. I suspect the arrival of Kaitlyn Chen establishes that Geno thought (at that time, anyway) that Paige would not be the primary PG this season. If he had been thinking that way, he already had the best and an outstanding backup in KK, and no need to add another guard. Allie, Morgan both played PG in HS. Ash and Azzi are capable enough in an emergency, too. Chen's arrival signals that this isn't (or wasn't) the plan. I imagine that Caroline figures into that calculation, too. If he rolled the ball out to a lineup of Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Sarah, and Jana at their best ... pause to take a deep breath ... they would score at will against anyone. But if the PG pairing of KK and KC inspires more confidence in his mind, then it would be easy to have Azzi/Paige sharing at 2/3, and still be very happy. Reminder that with Fudd and Supergirl on the floor, no PG will be easily trapped. Geno likes to be somewhat malleable on positions, so we'll still see some variety in who is bring the ball up or initiating the offense. |
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Post by linkster on Jun 6, 2024 16:09:08 GMT -5
Where did you see this? The only center listed on the roster is El Alfy and from what I've seen in the film she is more of a stretch 4. For the most part what some call a center in the woman's game is in fact a 4 who has no outside game and limited mobility. Think Courtney Paris. Most college posts end up as pf's in the W. The best setup in recent years was when Edwards, ONO and Edwards rotated. IMO none of them are centers. This year Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Patterson & Strong. Assuming they are all available they will rotate. From what I have seen, read or heard Strong is a lot more than Right now Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Strong and Patterson, all strong front court players. On another point I see that some feel Bueckers has been too passive, too uncertain. To me the only problem Bueckers has had at UConn is that when she has been healthy she has played out of position for almost her entire career. As a freshmen she had to take over the SG role because the seniors couldn't shoot 3's very well. Then she had to step aside for Muhl because pg was the only position Muhl could play. And now some want her to become Caitlin Clark, because that's what "too passive" is all about. They want Bueckers putting up headline scoring stats every game. "Take 25 shots a game Paige"? BS!! Bueckers has a tougher job this season than shooting. UConn has an amazing array of talent this year. But there are 4 1st year players, a transfer and a bunch who missed most of last season. Someone has to run this team. Should it be a transfer? Is there a better pg in the world than Bueckers? I say no but every year I read fans saying she should play off the ball. It's like suggesting that Aaron Judge should pitch because the Yankees need a relief pitcher and others can hit home runs. I agree that they're likely fours in the W, but on this team Ice and Jana will mostly be centers.
Freshman year, Paige toggled PG to Wing. Christyn was almost exclusively the SG. This is a nit. Your point remains. I suspect the arrival of Kaitlyn Chen establishes that Geno thought (at that time, anyway) that Paige would not be the primary PG this season. If he had been thinking that way, he already had the best and an outstanding backup in KK, and no need to add another guard. Allie, Morgan both played PG in HS. Ash and Azzi are capable enough in an emergency, too. Chen's arrival signals that this isn't (or wasn't) the plan. I imagine that Caroline figures into that calculation, too. If he rolled the ball out to a lineup of Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Sarah, and Jana at their best ... pause to take a deep breath ... they would score at will against anyone. But if the PG pairing of KK and KC inspires more confidence in his mind, then it would be easy to have Azzi/Paige sharing at 2/3, and still be very happy. Reminder that with Fudd and Supergirl on the floor, no PG will be easily trapped. Geno likes to be somewhat malleable on positions, so we'll still see some variety in who is bring the ball up or initiating the offense. What do you think is the difference between a center and a pf? To me, a pf can do what a center does plus play outside on the perimeter. In the mens game size is a big factor but there are no Wilt Chamberlains in the womens game. At best there are pf's without any perimeter skills. And why not play Bueckers where she is best and does the most good for the team? Why does KK have to play pg? It's not like 2001 when there weren't enough scorers and Bueckers had to move to a shooting position, nor is it like 2024 when she played the 4 due to a shortage in the front court. It seems to me that some fans slot every UConn player into where they are best (or at their only position) and then, at the end, stick Bueckers somewhere other than her best position. That is what has happened to Bueckers for her entire career at UConn. This year I'm hearing the same stuff about Arnold and Chen that I did about Muhl. "Chen and Arnold need to play so Bueckers has to move" Why? The difference this season is that there is no shortage of scorers at the 2-3-4. Bueckers isn't needed at pf or at the 2. So I guess fans will put Bueckers at the 5 since that's the only position without much depth?  ??  |
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Post by linkster on Jun 6, 2024 16:42:56 GMT -5
Where did you see this? The only center listed on the roster is El Alfy and from what I've seen in the film she is more of a stretch 4. For the most part what some call a center in the woman's game is in fact a 4 who has no outside game and limited mobility. Think Courtney Paris. Most college posts end up as pf's in the W. The best setup in recent years was when Edwards, ONO and Edwards rotated. IMO none of them are centers. This year Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Patterson & Strong. Assuming they are all available they will rotate. From what I have seen, read or heard Strong is a lot more than Right now Geno has Brady, El Alfy, Strong and Patterson, all strong front court players. On another point I see that some feel Bueckers has been too passive, too uncertain. To me the only problem Bueckers has had at UConn is that when she has been healthy she has played out of position for almost her entire career. As a freshmen she had to take over the SG role because the seniors couldn't shoot 3's very well. Then she had to step aside for Muhl because pg was the only position Muhl could play. And now some want her to become Caitlin Clark, because that's what "too passive" is all about. They want Bueckers putting up headline scoring stats every game. "Take 25 shots a game Paige"? BS!! Bueckers has a tougher job this season than shooting. UConn has an amazing array of talent this year. But there are 4 1st year players, a transfer and a bunch who missed most of last season. Someone has to run this team. Should it be a transfer? Is there a better pg in the world than Bueckers? I say no but every year I read fans saying she should play off the ball. It's like suggesting that Aaron Judge should pitch because the Yankees need a relief pitcher and others can hit home runs. I agree that they're likely fours in the W, but on this team Ice and Jana will mostly be centers. Freshman year, Paige toggled PG to Wing. Christyn was almost exclusively the SG. This is a nit. Your point remains. I suspect the arrival of Kaitlyn Chen establishes that Geno thought (at that time, anyway) that Paige would not be the primary PG this season. If he had been thinking that way, he already had the best and an outstanding backup in KK, and no need to add another guard. Allie, Morgan both played PG in HS. Ash and Azzi are capable enough in an emergency, too. Chen's arrival signals that this isn't (or wasn't) the plan. I imagine that Caroline figures into that calculation, too. If he rolled the ball out to a lineup of Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Sarah, and Jana at their best ... pause to take a deep breath ... they would score at will against anyone. But if the PG pairing of KK and KC inspires more confidence in his mind, then it would be easy to have Azzi/Paige sharing at 2/3, and still be very happy. Reminder that with Fudd and Supergirl on the floor, no PG will be easily trapped. Geno likes to be somewhat malleable on positions, so we'll still see some variety in who is bring the ball up or initiating the offense. Chen was added to expand the backcourt and increase senior experience in the event that Fudd/Ducharme are unable to play, as insurance against injury to others and because both Shade and Arnold are limited. Shade isn't a pg (yet) and Arnold isn't a scoring guard (yet). Both are still learning despite last season. Chen can play both positions. Senechal was brought in for the same reason in 2023 as Chen this year. How in the hell can Geno be more confident in Arnold and Chen at pg than Bueckers? Is either a better passer? Is either a better shooter? Is either a better ball handler? Is either a better defender? Does Arnold have a higher BBIQ than Bueckers? Is Chen going to surpass Bueckers leadership abilities? No no no no no no no no. I'm no different than many fans, I have my favorite player that I want to see play at her best position. The difference between me and some others is that my favorite player is the best in the country at pg where her leadership will have the most effect and where all of her skills are best displayed. The other side wants their favorite to start/play at pg because a) that's their only position or b) their feelings would be hurt if they didn't start/play there. What they want Geno to do is "play favorites", their favorites. I supervised people for a long time and there is no better way to destroy chemistry in a group than playing favorites when others who are better are made to step aside. Maybe in September Geno might say that Arnold and Shade will start at 1/2 "because despite the summer practice they earned it last year". Anyone interested in taking the yes side of that possibility? |
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Post by ucchamp on Jun 6, 2024 20:34:12 GMT -5
I'm gonna duck after I write this: Paige needs some guidance out there. She still sometimes lapses into uncertainty or even passivity. Kaitlyn won't let her do that. She knows her role far better than does KK and will push Paige to be Paige. She'll also willingly distribute to Azzi as well. I don't agree with this at all. IMo the only passivity Paige shows is that her coach demands perfection and she isn't perfect. Never will be. Geno wil always find fault. Paige was supposed to have more top tier players playing alongside her. Thus any little thing she does wrong will get highlighted. I believe if UCONN were actually Iowa these past 2 years - there would be fault of Clark's game. ANd I believe in regard to mini-matchups - players will play in big games in how well their game interacts with Paige. And imo it will be Paige leading Chen in order to get the best out of her. If for example, Chen;s shot fails, then it might mean Paige has to be more perfect which means Geno will be tougher on Paige. Chen has to learn how to play with a superstar. |
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Post by ucchamp on Jun 6, 2024 20:43:58 GMT -5
I agree that they're likely fours in the W, but on this team Ice and Jana will mostly be centers.
Freshman year, Paige toggled PG to Wing. Christyn was almost exclusively the SG. This is a nit. Your point remains. I suspect the arrival of Kaitlyn Chen establishes that Geno thought (at that time, anyway) that Paige would not be the primary PG this season. If he had been thinking that way, he already had the best and an outstanding backup in KK, and no need to add another guard. Allie, Morgan both played PG in HS. Ash and Azzi are capable enough in an emergency, too. Chen's arrival signals that this isn't (or wasn't) the plan. I imagine that Caroline figures into that calculation, too. If he rolled the ball out to a lineup of Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Sarah, and Jana at their best ... pause to take a deep breath ... they would score at will against anyone. But if the PG pairing of KK and KC inspires more confidence in his mind, then it would be easy to have Azzi/Paige sharing at 2/3, and still be very happy. Reminder that with Fudd and Supergirl on the floor, no PG will be easily trapped. Geno likes to be somewhat malleable on positions, so we'll still see some variety in who is bring the ball up or initiating the offense. And why not play Bueckers where she is best and does the most good for the team? Why does KK have to play pg? It's not like 2001 when there weren't enough scorers and Bueckers had to move to a shooting position, nor is it like 2024 when she played the 4 due to a shortage in the front court. I Because basketball is a team game not an individual game. Paige is the all the the permiter posistions wrapped up into 1. Her strength is a team player. Not being isolated into one posiition. Last year proved that. |
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Post by linkster on Jun 6, 2024 21:24:52 GMT -5
And why not play Bueckers where she is best and does the most good for the team? Why does KK have to play pg? It's not like 2001 when there weren't enough scorers and Bueckers had to move to a shooting position, nor is it like 2024 when she played the 4 due to a shortage in the front court. I Because basketball is a team game not an individual game. Paige is the all the the permiter posistions wrapped up into 1. Her strength is a team player. Not being isolated into one posiition. Last year proved that. No one is more of a team player than Bueckers. But there are 5 positions, at least in theory. If Bueckers can play 1-3 the question is which. I'd say have her do what she does better than anyone, by far. Run the offense and make the decisions that the pg makes. That does not mean she plays that role for 100% of her minutes. But that is who I would want starting games and implementing my offense if I was Geno. The good of the team? Start Bueckers at the point and there is an array of talented scorers for the 2-3 and it may turn out that some of them are more effective than Arnold would be at the 1. I think it's amazing that Arnold and Shade developed like they did last season and it's even more amazing that neither may start because others are better. Maybe and maybe not but not out of the question given what I have seen of the 1st year players. |
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Post by ucchamp on Jun 6, 2024 23:24:57 GMT -5
Because basketball is a team game not an individual game. Paige is the all the the permiter posistions wrapped up into 1. Her strength is a team player. Not being isolated into one posiition. Last year proved that. No one is more of a team player than Bueckers. But there are 5 positions, at least in theory. If Bueckers can play 1-3 the question is which. I'd say have her do what she does better than anyone, by far. Run the offense and make the decisions that the pg makes. That does not mean she plays that role for 100% of her minutes. But that is who I would want starting games and implementing my offense if I was Geno. But the question isn't "which." She plays everything simultaneously great in which she is the best. The Offense UCONN runs isn't like Iowa - it's a motion offense- not going to pigeon-hole itself to one ball dominant player. So, there is no difference if KK, Ashlynn and Paige start. Paige is the PG. But she is also the SG and she is also the SF. Just because KK is in- doesn't mean Paige is not also the PG. She is referred to more of a 3 because her defense and because she is going to shoot more. But on Offense she is the primary decision maker in the motion offense. of course not exclusive because UCONN is not a 1 player team. A pg doesn't need to be ball dominant- they can also be a pg even if they move off the ball while putting their team in a better position to score. That's why a pg doesn't need to be ball-dominant. And a pg can come off of picks. A pg can cut backdoor. A pg can use their size to take advantage of smaller players. All of these things are what a pg can do and are all things Paige does. They all represent a team game. |
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Post by bulkey on Jun 7, 2024 9:10:11 GMT -5
In this video (I've posted it before), UConn initiates its set offense mostly off a two guard set--by either the 1 or 2. So, even though KK was the designated point last season, even while playing the 2 Nika could have more assists, and a lot of her 3 point shots were from the top of the key, what we think of as the point position. The UConn offense is based on motion, fluidity, and interchangeable parts. Why Sarah is pretty much the Platonic ideal for UConn. www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/princeton-offense-chin-series |
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Post by huskyharper on Jun 7, 2024 21:55:22 GMT -5
Why all the angst over Page's "position?". She'll be whatever the team needs her to be in that particular moment, whether she's starting the offense orrunning thru the play. She'll be on the floor and undefinable. Kinda like her talent... KC and KK may be designated pg, but Paige is Paige and needs no defined position to affect the game. She will rule, as the One Ring (couldn't resist the LOTR reference).
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