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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2023 10:49:07 GMT -5
The thing that absolutely perplexes me is recruiting. A program with the history, fame, and fan support like the Vols just shouldn't struggle recruiting, at least to the current degree. I'm not a recruiting maven, at all - but, the only explanation that comes to my mind is, when potential recruits interact with the program - whether the coaching staff or current players - something just comes across as a red flag. As far as I know, the facilities are first-rate - so, what's the problem? Coach Holly Warlick, who was fired and replaced by Kellie Harper, was a mediocre coach; but she was a good recruiter? Perhaps more of the aura of Pat was around to help? It's a mystery to me why they can't recruit?
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Post by rukia on Feb 5, 2023 19:48:57 GMT -5
They are going to lose multiple players in the portal this summer. Just watch.
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Post by McHuskyFan on Feb 5, 2023 21:19:42 GMT -5
I think it might good to pause it unless we can have some guarantees that our players are not going to get hurt. It's not worth it. I feel the same way about the Georgia coach. I just wouldn't play rugby with these morons. Our player's didn't get hurt. There is no reason not play this game other than a fan who hates Tenn. We’re lucky none of our players got hurt despite the poor officiating !! If the refs can’t control the game, injuries are more likely. Don’t know about you, but I want to watch basketball, not rugby!! Listen to Geno’s postgame about how banged up Lou is. That’s NOT basketball….
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Post by bulkey on Feb 5, 2023 22:09:01 GMT -5
Our player's didn't get hurt. There is no reason not play this game other than a fan who hates Tenn. We’re lucky none of our players got hurt despite the poor officiating !! If the refs can’t control the game, injuries are more likely. Don’t know about you, but I want to watch basketball, not rugby!! Listen to Geno’s postgame about how banged up Lou is. That’s NOT basketball…. If it's not basketball, what is it? That's the book on UConn--play them as physically as you can get away with. Everyone knows South Carolina is a physical team. That's Dawn's style. They aren't dirty (at least not intentionally so, though stuff happens), but they'll do everything possible to disrupt your game. That involves taking chances that the reffing will go their way. Every time we lose, we blame the refs. But refs never change. (The very best NFL refs blew calls that cost Cincinnati the AFC game). Seems to me folks here are just complying with Einstein's definition of insanity.
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Post by rukia on Feb 5, 2023 22:12:06 GMT -5
Maybe it is a good strategy for Geno to repeatedly question the physical play and the officiating? Because it definitely seems like physical play is the scouting report for playing against UConn right now. By questioning it and pointing it out, maybe there will be some dividends in the games and weeks ahead?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2023 23:57:17 GMT -5
Maybe it is a good strategy for Geno to repeatedly question the physical play and the officiating? Because it definitely seems like physical play is the scouting report for playing against UConn right now. By questioning it and pointing it out, maybe there will be some dividends in the games and weeks ahead? Geno is correct and he understands the rules better than the officials do? The most recent rule book specifically states that the rules should be enforced uniformly and it also covers illegal contact on the ball handler, much of which the officials ignored today? That's why Geno tossed out the water bottle today - he was disgusted by the missed calls. Here are the rules pertaining to this: From the rule book page 6: Enforcing the Rules as WrittenEnforcing the Rules as Written Enforcing the rules as written is a point of emphasis again after a two-year hiatus. The rules committee wants to ensure that officials, coaches, players, administrators, coordinators, and conferences focus on the playing rules as found in the rules book and to support officials in their enforcement of all playing rules. When the playing rules are enforced as written, it lends itself to consistency from game to game, division to division, and region to region. The playing rules are designed to create a balance of play, equally favorable conditions for both the offense and the defense, and provide reasonable safety protection for players; without the consistency in the application of the rules, the balance the rules committee seeks to provide through the playing rules is not accomplished. Officials are tasked with ensuring that the competing teams play within the rules. There is no room for personal philosophies or using “game management” to ignore enforcing a playing rule. Coaches should continue to familiarize themselves with the rules and teach the rules to their players; when players know what is legal or illegal, it reduces the number of stoppages for illegal acts and makes for a more enjoyable game. Except when a waiver is issued by the rules committee, no one has the authority to set aside a playing rule or interpretation.
Pages 8-9: Contact On and By the Ball Handler/DribblerContact On and By the Ball Handler/Dribbler Illegal contact on the ball handler/dribbler is inhibiting the ability of teams to start their offense. Six years ago, the rules committee and the coaches asked that officials enforce the guideline that one “measure-up” touch is permitted on the ball handler and any subsequent contact by the defender using either the front or back of the same hand or using the other hand on the ball handler/ dribbler be ruled a foul. An armbar placed on the ball handler, along with two hands simultaneously, are automatic fouls. When there is body contact between the ball handler and defender, the official must determine whether the contact is incidental (due to both players moving legally) or illegal. When the defender's body contact, such as the defender's body bumping or leaning their torso on the dribbler, affects the rhythm, speed, balance, or quickness of the ball handler, or reroutes the ball handler from their desired path, a foul has been committed by the defender. When the ball handler makes illegal contact with the defender, a foul has been committed by the ball handler. It is critical that officials consistently enforce these guidelines from the start of the game until its conclusion, regardless of time and score, and from the beginning of scrimmage/exhibition games until the last game of the season.
From page 91:
Section 6. Hands and Arms, Use of
Section 9. Holding Holding is illegal personal contact with an opponent that interferes with the opponent’s freedom of movement.
Section 10 Personal Fouls
Art. 2. A player shall not hold, displace, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending their arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), by bending their own body into other than a normal position or by using any unreasonably rough tactics. Art. 3. A player shall not contact an opponent with their hand(s) unless such contact is incidental or is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball. Art. 4. A player shall not use their hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom of movement of the opponent in any way.
From page 114
Ball Handler or Dribbler
b. Illegal contact. A foul shall be ruled when: 1. The cutter is held with the hands, body or arm-bar. 2. The cutter is pushed with the hands, body or arm-bar off their intended path. 3. The cutter initiates contact and pushes or holds the defender in any way. 4. Holding, pushing or displacement occurs by either the offense or defense.
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Post by swash on Feb 6, 2023 11:56:10 GMT -5
We’re lucky none of our players got hurt despite the poor officiating !! If the refs can’t control the game, injuries are more likely. Don’t know about you, but I want to watch basketball, not rugby!! Listen to Geno’s postgame about how banged up Lou is. That’s NOT basketball…. If it's not basketball, what is it? That's the book on UConn--play them as physically as you can get away with. Everyone knows South Carolina is a physical team. That's Dawn's style. They aren't dirty (at least not intentionally so, though stuff happens), but they'll do everything possible to disrupt your game. That involves taking chances that the reffing will go their way. Every time we lose, we blame the refs. But refs never change. (The very best NFL refs blew calls that cost Cincinnati the AFC game). Seems to me folks here are just complying with Einstein's definition of insanity. A few players, and occasionally a team are dirty. They will intentionally try to harm players. Dawn would not stand for that, and none of that was happening yesterday. What was happening was slowing a player down as they passed ... lean over, hipcheck, get in the way, grab a bit, arm bar, etc. Those are illegal and the refs were not calling any of it, even when bodies went flying. You're correct, our team needs to deal with that stuff better, because in the tournament, that is generally called less. There was also a lot of pushing of the person boxing out, over the back, etc. Some is expected, but there were times when Cardozo or Saxton would just bulldoze the pile like a Fullback to clear everyone out, leaving the rebound to someone else. Those were also not being called. The most egregious have to be noted, or this escalates and injuries can occur. They basically never called fouls away from the ball. No calls for hand checks. The only offensive fouls called were against UCONN, despite plenty of opportunities to call SCar, including a million moving picks and clear charges. What they did call was touch fouls on the shooters. That's probably why we went to 1v1 plays late in the game.
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Post by bulkey on Feb 6, 2023 12:01:57 GMT -5
Over on the Tenn board, where generally a lot of folks do think South Carolina was playing maybe overly physical, one noted all the moving screens that UConn threw that weren't called. I didn't look for them yesterday, but certainly that is something that UConn tries (and often does) get away with. It's not necessarily a physical engagement, but it is a violation.
At the Providence College game, a Friar (not a real one) was called for turning the ball over. Wow! Since Connie Hawkins and Dr. J reinvented basketball, whoever gets called for "palming"? Nika then dribbled the ball up court slowly, right in front of me. Without doubt, she was turning it over exactly the way the Friar had been, but it wasn't called.
I simply don't react to refereeing anymore. It is what it is. If the shots go in, you win. If they don't, you lose.
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Post by swash on Feb 6, 2023 17:55:38 GMT -5
Maybe it is a good strategy for Geno to repeatedly question the physical play and the officiating? Because it definitely seems like physical play is the scouting report for playing against UConn right now. By questioning it and pointing it out, maybe there will be some dividends in the games and weeks ahead? Geno is correct and he understands the rules better than the officials do? The most recent rule book specifically states that the rules should be enforced uniformly and it also covers illegal contact on the ball handler, much of which the officials ignored today? That's why Geno tossed out the water bottle today - he was disgusted by the missed calls. Here are the rules pertaining to this: From the rule book page 6: Enforcing the Rules as WrittenEnforcing the Rules as Written Enforcing the rules as written is a point of emphasis again after a two-year hiatus. The rules committee wants to ensure that officials, coaches, players, administrators, coordinators, and conferences focus on the playing rules as found in the rules book and to support officials in their enforcement of all playing rules. When the playing rules are enforced as written, it lends itself to consistency from game to game, division to division, and region to region. The playing rules are designed to create a balance of play, equally favorable conditions for both the offense and the defense, and provide reasonable safety protection for players; without the consistency in the application of the rules, the balance the rules committee seeks to provide through the playing rules is not accomplished. Officials are tasked with ensuring that the competing teams play within the rules. There is no room for personal philosophies or using “game management” to ignore enforcing a playing rule. Coaches should continue to familiarize themselves with the rules and teach the rules to their players; when players know what is legal or illegal, it reduces the number of stoppages for illegal acts and makes for a more enjoyable game. Except when a waiver is issued by the rules committee, no one has the authority to set aside a playing rule or interpretation.
Pages 8-9: Contact On and By the Ball Handler/DribblerContact On and By the Ball Handler/Dribbler Illegal contact on the ball handler/dribbler is inhibiting the ability of teams to start their offense. Six years ago, the rules committee and the coaches asked that officials enforce the guideline that one “measure-up” touch is permitted on the ball handler and any subsequent contact by the defender using either the front or back of the same hand or using the other hand on the ball handler/ dribbler be ruled a foul. An armbar placed on the ball handler, along with two hands simultaneously, are automatic fouls. When there is body contact between the ball handler and defender, the official must determine whether the contact is incidental (due to both players moving legally) or illegal. When the defender's body contact, such as the defender's body bumping or leaning their torso on the dribbler, affects the rhythm, speed, balance, or quickness of the ball handler, or reroutes the ball handler from their desired path, a foul has been committed by the defender. When the ball handler makes illegal contact with the defender, a foul has been committed by the ball handler. It is critical that officials consistently enforce these guidelines from the start of the game until its conclusion, regardless of time and score, and from the beginning of scrimmage/exhibition games until the last game of the season.
From page 91:
Section 6. Hands and Arms, Use of
Section 9. Holding Holding is illegal personal contact with an opponent that interferes with the opponent’s freedom of movement.
Section 10 Personal Fouls
Art. 2. A player shall not hold, displace, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending their arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), by bending their own body into other than a normal position or by using any unreasonably rough tactics. Art. 3. A player shall not contact an opponent with their hand(s) unless such contact is incidental or is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball. Art. 4. A player shall not use their hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom of movement of the opponent in any way.
From page 114
Ball Handler or Dribbler
b. Illegal contact. A foul shall be ruled when: 1. The cutter is held with the hands, body or arm-bar. 2. The cutter is pushed with the hands, body or arm-bar off their intended path. 3. The cutter initiates contact and pushes or holds the defender in any way. 4. Holding, pushing or displacement occurs by either the offense or defense.
That's all great, but... it ain't what we see in practice and there is no recourse, not even an opportunity for a formal complaint that is general in nature. There is only a complaint process for a single referee that a coach believes is incompetent... and it rarely goes anywhere.
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