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Post by rockymtblue2 on Apr 17, 2015 17:52:49 GMT -5
It finally came to me this afternoon when I was internet surfing for facts, factoids, asteroids and ancient roman graves discovered in English farm fields and ran into a regurgitation of the now stale news of Dan Jenkins fake interview with Tiger in the last Golf Digest. The article is here:
sports.yahoo.com/news/-the-rebuttal--provides-rare-glimpse-inside-tiger-woods--mind-200441739.html
It deals with among other things the corporation that is Tiger Woods, the interviews purposely less informative than Belichek's post game interviews, the retinue of suits always there to keep him out of trouble, etc.
Somewhere in the middle of all that I had an epiphany: I dislike Tiger Woods because he, unlike almost every one who went before him as someone reigning in the sport, has been and continues to be an uninviting, uncordial (rude), ascerbic .... worse, ungentlemanly butt wad who acts like the world owes him everything. Golf is, first and foremost, a social game and this jerk is not social. Who knows what dark stuff tumbles around in his head behind the blank stare he offers the world when he isn't dropping the club in disgust. Sure, he electrified golf with his play and drew audience share - glory hallelujah - but hiss persona and carriage are ultimately destructive of the inherent appeal and core of golf.
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Post by pinotbear on Apr 17, 2015 18:43:13 GMT -5
I'm not a Tiger fan either. Part of it are the qualities you touch upon - his swearing, spitting, club thumping/tossing, creative use of rules, and the other stuff you mention. As you mention, his whole persona is so unlike a Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Nelson - even some other great golfers like Watson, Seve and Trevino weren't always cuddly, but, they still projected great respect for the game.
But, what really tipped the scales for me was his extra-curricular misdeeds. I'm not really all that much of a prude - what really offended me was, here's a guy who;
- In a game that millions of us play, and struggle with, he was indisputably, the greatest golfer on the planet.
- He was on the very short list in the discussion of the greatest of all time.
- He was one of the most famous people on the planet
- He was incredibly wealthy
- He had a beautiful wife
- He had beautiful children
AND IT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR HIM!
He lead a life that all but a handful of people on the planet could only dream about - and, it didn't satisfy him: he wanted more. Perhaps it was a somewhat logical extension of that "the world owes him everything" attitude you mention, but, Jeez!
So, so greedy: he had to have everything he wanted.
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Post by radylady on Apr 18, 2015 11:47:47 GMT -5
sounds like a quasi-sociopath to me. I wouldn't invite him to dinner
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Post by linkster on Apr 18, 2015 13:35:47 GMT -5
I don't give a rat's ass about Tiger's personal life or his "sociability". Most of the negativity comes from the media and from those talking heads on TV that are former players. From them I see nothing but resentment that goes back to when Tiger first turned pro. He never "paid his dues" in their eyes. A young player was expected to struggle for a number of years, and slowly join the older and more established players. But Tiger made more money and won more tournaments in his first 2 years on tour than most of the rest of the PGA would in their entire careers.
When Tiger's infidelity was spread across the media along with the shock and dismay of the golf media I was reminded of the Claude Raines character in Casablanca declaring his shock that gambling was going on in Rick's Cafe. If the adulterous pro golfers were all put into a room we would need a ballroom to hold them.
To me it comes down to why Tiger is subjected to microscopic scrutiny while the rest of the tour is protected? Why do other players have their private lives shielded while Tiger's is sprayed over the media? Look at Dustin Johnson. Here's a guy that was involved with other player's wives involving not only sex but Coke parties. And yet, after a short "rehab" he is welcomed back by the media and actually extolled for his valiant struggle and return to the fold. Look at Rory, tossing a club over 40 yards in angry frustration at Trump's tournament only to have the media turn it into a funny story by filming a diver retrieving it and returning it to him in a staged event. I doubt that if a 25 year old Tiger had done it the response would have been the same. In fact, I read posts of disgust when Tiger merely drops his club, as happened on the 13th hole at Augusta I remember when he was criticized for his fist pump reaction to making a putt in his early days. Now, it's become a common and accepted thing for other golfers to do, but then they would never be confused with an angry black man now, would they? Spitting? Why is it so horrible for Tiger? Watch a baseball game and watch how many players are spitting in the dirt that other players not only walk on but slide their bodies across. To say nothing of spitting on the ball itself by pitchers, the same balls that their teammates handle? How many of you have ever posted your disgust with that habit?
Foul language? I remember following Gary McCord around the GHO on a Friday and hearing him let loose with a 15 second sting of the most vile obsenities I ever heard after missing a 4 foot putt. The only difference was that he wasn't on live camera at the time. How about the Merry Mex, Lee Trevino? The media portrays him as a happy go lucky fun guy on the course, always with a big smile for the crowd. Well, I followed him more than once and he was a mean crab, Glaring at the gallery after a poor shot, treating his caddy like a dog and generally being an a$$hole,.... until he came to a TV hole, at which point the smile came out and Lee would dance around, joking with the public in atransformation worthy of Lon Chaney Jr.
I am not old enough to remember Ben Hogan. Ben, along with Sam Snead and a couple of others, were their generation's stars. Ben, however, was consistently ragged on by a media that didn't care for his bland demeanor. Sam Snead would drink with the writers who followed the tour. Walter Hagen would pick up the entire tab for an evening with those writers. And they wrote wonderful stories about them while Ben, who was never known for his glib tongue, became the "robot man" and had all his miscues reported in detail.
Tiger Woods is a once-in-a-lifetime golfing genius. I don't have a clue about what he is like privately and frankly, I don't care. Ty Cobb was a racist pig. Babe Ruth was a boozer. Sam Sneed was a cheap bastard who welched on his losing bets. So what? The shots Tiger has executed in do or die situations has been the bread and butter of pro golf for 20 years. His 12 stroke margin of victory in the 97 Masters and his incredible 15 stroke margin of victory at the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach are the measure of his dominance. Any look at the comparative TV ratings of tournaments he enters and those he doesn't make it clear that he is responsible for a good deal of the money the rest of pro golf earns each year. Before Tiger, pro golf was a boring collection of very skilled players who would rather finish second than risk dropping to 6th by attempting a shot to win (the exception being Phil, the difference being that Phil crashed and burned far more often than Tiger). Tiger changed all that. For the better. Tiger is news. Good and bad. And a segment of the media has learned that they can enhance their careers by focussing on the bad.
We have no idea what any of these media stars is really like, except in what the media tells us and how they choose to spin it. I decided long ago to ignore the media and appreciate the skills the athletes display and reserve my opinion of their character to when I know them personally.
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Post by rockymtblue2 on Apr 18, 2015 14:58:16 GMT -5
I don't give a rat's ass about Tiger's personal life or his "sociability". Most of the negativity comes from the media and from those talking heads on TV that are former players. From them I see nothing but resentment that goes back to when Tiger first turned pro. He never "paid his dues" in their eyes. A young player was expected to struggle for a number of years, and slowly join the older and more established players. But Tiger made more money and won more tournaments in his first 2 years on tour than most of the rest of the PGA would in their entire careers. When Tiger's infidelity was spread across the media along with the shock and dismay of the golf media I was reminded of the Claude Raines character in Casablanca declaring his shock that gambling was going on in Rick's Cafe. If the adulterous pro golfers were all put into a room we would need a ballroom to hold them. To me it comes down to why Tiger is subjected to microscopic scrutiny while the rest of the tour is protected? Why do other players have their private lives shielded while Tiger's is sprayed over the media? Look at Dustin Johnson. Here's a guy that was involved with other player's wives involving not only sex but Coke parties. And yet, after a short "rehab" he is welcomed back by the media and actually extolled for his valiant struggle and return to the fold. Look at Rory, tossing a club over 40 yards in angry frustration at Trump's tournament only to have the media turn it into a funny story by filming a diver retrieving it and returning it to him in a staged event. I doubt that if a 25 year old Tiger had done it the response would have been the same. In fact, I read posts of disgust when Tiger merely drops his club, as happened on the 13th hole at Augusta I remember when he was criticized for his fist pump reaction to making a putt in his early days. Now, it's become a common and accepted thing for other golfers to do, but then they would never be confused with an angry black man now, would they? Spitting? Why is it so horrible for Tiger? Watch a baseball game and watch how many players are spitting in the dirt that other players not only walk on but slide their bodies across. To say nothing of spitting on the ball itself by pitchers, the same balls that their teammates handle? How many of you have ever posted your disgust with that habit? Foul language? I remember following Gary McCord around the GHO on a Friday and hearing him let loose with a 15 second sting of the most vile obsenities I ever heard after missing a 4 foot putt. The only difference was that he wasn't on live camera at the time. How about the Merry Mex, Lee Trevino? The media portrays him as a happy go lucky fun guy on the course, always with a big smile for the crowd. Well, I followed him more than once and he was a mean crab, Glaring at the gallery after a poor shot, treating his caddy like a dog and generally being an a$$hole,.... until he came to a TV hole, at which point the smile came out and Lee would dance around, joking with the public in atransformation worthy of Lon Chaney Jr. I am not old enough to remember Ben Hogan. Ben, along with Sam Snead and a couple of others, were their generation's stars. Ben, however, was consistently ragged on by a media that didn't care for his bland demeanor. Sam Snead would drink with the writers who followed the tour. Walter Hagen would pick up the entire tab for an evening with those writers. And they wrote wonderful stories about them while Ben, who was never known for his glib tongue, became the "robot man" and had all his miscues reported in detail. Tiger Woods is a once-in-a-lifetime golfing genius. I don't have a clue about what he is like privately and frankly, I don't care. Ty Cobb was a racist pig. Babe Ruth was a boozer. Sam Sneed was a cheap bastard who welched on his losing bets. So what? The shots Tiger has executed in do or die situations has been the bread and butter of pro golf for 20 years. His 12 stroke margin of victory in the 97 Masters and his incredible 15 stroke margin of victory at the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach are the measure of his dominance. Any look at the comparative TV ratings of tournaments he enters and those he doesn't make it clear that he is responsible for a good deal of the money the rest of pro golf earns each year. Before Tiger, pro golf was a boring collection of very skilled players who would rather finish second than risk dropping to 6th by attempting a shot to win ( the exception being Phil, the difference being that Phil crashed and burned far more often than Tiger). Tiger changed all that. For the better. Tiger is news. Good and bad. And a segment of the media has learned that they can enhance their careers by focussing on the bad. We have no idea what any of these media stars is really like, except in what the media tells us and how they choose to spin it. I decided long ago to ignore the media and appreciate the skills the athletes display and reserve my opinion of their character to when I know them personally. Just so we are clear, I do not care about how many whores this guy rents a week. I detest him because his on game, on air personae dishonors the sport that made him rich and if we had 2 or 3 more like him the game would dry up and blow away in the media wind. |
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Post by Icebear on Apr 18, 2015 15:20:27 GMT -5
Tiger is no longer news. What little news he is because the media carries him forward constantly. Time to forget about until he does something worthy of being called special.
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Post by linkster on Apr 18, 2015 19:05:47 GMT -5
Do you realize that Arnold Palmer was a cussing, club throwing chain smoker for most of his career? In fact most young pro golfers are egotistical asses and I've known a few. As far as having behavior problems, remember Jimmy Connors? Or John McIntire? Now there were assholes who turned me away from pro tennis. Tiger has been under a microscope since he turned pro at 21. Nobody got the scrutiny that he got at such a young age. I've read others post about how they find Tiger's cursing and spitting to be so revolting that they lose all respect for him. The list of pro athletes these people detest must be huge because cursing and spitting abounds in just about every sport. I know I won't change your mind and I'm not trying to but I will say that you are holding him up to a standard that no one would pass. And as far as who owes who, the PGA owes vastly more to Tiger Woods than he owes them. Tiger turned a PGA tour languishing in mediocrity with an aging viewership into a mass -appeal sport. Do you think Nike paid him all that money as an act of charity? Even today, Tiger's entry into an event inflates the ratings like a picture of naked boobs to a 12 year old boy. This man will be remembered as a god of golf and those who spent the last 20 years picking him apart will be seen as less than that. JMO of course.  |
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Post by UConnChapette on Apr 24, 2015 22:39:34 GMT -5
So what I get from all this is Tiger does not comport himself well.
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Post by Icebear on Apr 25, 2015 5:59:33 GMT -5
So what I get from all this is Tiger does not comport himself well. It seems his comportment is compartmented. |
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