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Post by semper on Apr 25, 2024 9:12:37 GMT -5
We made the final four with nearly half our squad on the pines. We did so great!!! And now we have a wonderful future ahead. I really really wanted Strong, and man, we actually got her. So great!!! I filled with joy and enthusiasm for next year, and also have hopes for Nika and Aaliyah in the WNBA. Camps are heating up and there is a report out there about their chances. Fingers crossed.
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Post by chicagogg on Apr 25, 2024 9:32:18 GMT -5
We made the final four with nearly half our squad on the pines. We did so great!!! And now we have a wonderful future ahead. I really really wanted Strong, and man, we actually got her. So great!!! I filled with joy and enthusiasm for next year, and also have hopes for Nika and Aaliyah in the WNBA. Camps are heating up and there is a report out there about their chances. Fingers crossed. Love this and would like it multiple times if possible! Agree 1000%! Hope all is well in Cambridge and that your dental issues have been resolved. Happy Spring in England!
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Post by semper on Apr 25, 2024 10:08:57 GMT -5
I'm actually looking forward to my root canal, which has gotta tell you something.
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Post by chicagogg on Apr 25, 2024 10:15:03 GMT -5
I'm actually looking forward to my root canal, which has gotta tell you something. Hoo boy - things do not sound merry over there! Hope all improves soonest! Maybe a little quite time in the cloisters? (If there is such a thing as quiet time while in term session)
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Post by bulkey on Apr 25, 2024 10:16:39 GMT -5
I'm actually looking forward to my root canal, which has gotta tell you something. Hoo boy - things do not sound merry over there! Hope all improves soonest! Maybe a little quite time in the cloisters? (If there is such a thing as quiet time while in term session) Or is semper referencing recent conversations here?
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Post by chicagogg on Apr 25, 2024 10:42:12 GMT -5
Hoo boy - things do not sound merry over there! Hope all improves soonest! Maybe a little quite time in the cloisters? (If there is such a thing as quiet time while in term session) Or is semper referencing recent conversations here? Could be...possibly....hadn't thought of it that way! Hmmm....
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Post by jonathan on Apr 26, 2024 21:37:25 GMT -5
Just about every freshman has a better second half. That, alone, proves nothing. I didn't argue anything regarding ICE's weight. I simply said it looked to me like she had gained a lot since that HS picture and that it could have affected her. I was clearly speculating. But you are actually claiming to know that she didn't gain weight which, by definition, couldn't have affected anything. Unless you are REALLY close to insiders, you have no way of knowing this for sure. We agree to disagree on whether Ice is a hope or a lock to be a major contributor next year. On Nika, how many championships did she win? Her subtle moves may have made her a very good player but was she ever a championship level player? Geno doesn't have a lot of years left. If he can get a championship level player in the portal, he should go for it, even if that means these first year players (and even the second year players) may need to defer to an upperclassmen transfer for a year or two. I guess, in summary, I view the situation as more urgent than you do. A good example of what I've been reading here about Ice in so many negative posts. It's pretty pathetic. I kinda get that fans were disappointed with her freshmen season. But those fans ignore the fact that she missed months and months of practice and was out an entire year after her surgery. Both the mental and physical aspect of her recovery certainly set her back with this past season started. She clearly improved later in the season. The two 40 minute games were a surprise to all of us. I mentioned the "Glimpses" of what she can bring to the table and I just don't get what some fans are missing about the impact of an off season of getting in better condition, working with her teammates in summer workouts and then finally fall practices. I won't predict numbers yet for her next season. The roster is not set. If Beers comes then it could impact Ice's minutes per game. But I'm pretty cofident she will be a bettter player. More aware of the system (as most bigs do their second season) and the big thing is more confident as long as the negative fans don't bring her down. Yes, I believe that fans can impact that. Your comments on Nika is just a crappy parting shot. She had (has) the heart of a champion. No she hasn't won one, but is every player not on South Carolina or LSU or Stanford not a championship level player? Is Buecker or Clark not championship level players. Basketball is a team name. It's not tennis or golf. You want a chapionship level player in the portal. Them them all. The intent wasn't to be negative. But you even admit that she didn't live up to expectations. It is hard to say that in a positive way. And I just gave stats to back up the observation. It is hard to put a positive spin on those. But you are right that she wasn't a typical freshman. We all hope she makes a huge, larger than average, sophomore jump. It makes us better and that is what matters. I just don't expect it. Hope, yes. Expect, no. On Nika, I wasn't trying to take a parting shot. She was very good. And, like you said, it is a team sport. I guess I would say that she, and others, just weren't quite good enough. If she were playing beside Taurasi, back in the day, instead of, say, Conlon, that team definitely still wins that championship. But there wasn't a dominant team steamrolling everyone that year. UConn was that steamroller in the last few Stewie years. Now it is South Carolina. To beat a steamroller, you need to be a steamroller. I just don't think Nika was quite good enough to be the PG of a steamroller like Moriah was. Close, but not quite. TBH, no other team was going to beat SC this year. And, if they get Iriafen, they might be even better next year. It is going to take a team loaded with championship caliber players to take them down. Two won't be enough. Three might not be enough. If we could get Beers and Iriafen to team up with Paige, Azzi and Strong and everyone stays healthy, we could challenge SC. I know some people are concerned that such a scenario would slow the progress of Jana and Ice. I don't think it would slow their progress that much and I view every year as potentially our last year with Geno. Again, not trying to be negative. I just don't think it is crazy to act with a little more urgency at this point.
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Post by ucchamp on Apr 28, 2024 10:42:55 GMT -5
I'll take that challenge, Magic. If Ice starts, she'll get 8 and 6. Off the bench, more than 15 minutes she'll get the same. I'm being Very conservative, but she'll only be a sophomore. I would say 7 and 4, so we're pretty close in our assessment, and I am being gracious with that number. Those numbers will never get uconn a championship next season. We got 17 and 9 from Aayaliyah and she needed more help. So, tell me where the rest comes from? You will probably speculate Jana will do this or that. But again that is hopeful speculation for a player that hasn't played one game yet.In fact , Q had numbers equal to Ice with less playing time. IMO your expectations of Ice are out of whack with what most players coming to top teams which are posts actually perform to. Geno prefers fastbreak basketball. You know this as a diehard UCONN fan that you are. Pace of play matters for Bigs. Ice is behind the 8-ball this early in her career having to play fastbreak basketball. She isn't very fast/quick - so her game is going to take time. SO most imprtant for her was her shot. Well- she didn't shoot well early. So, yeah of course Q is going to have "numbers" equal to Q. UCONN was playing a guards-game wanting to push pace. And if oyu're a Big and you're shot ain't going in- you ain't gonna play unless you are super at something else. Her best attribute/strenght is her shot. As for who will the scoring come from to replace Edwards? It will come from Sarah. Sarah does not have to exactly match Aaliyah; because UCONN also has Azzi coming. And with another year KK and Ashlynn- - and it's doubtful the way everyone talks up Jana -- so yeah 7 pts and 4 rebounds is very fine.
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Post by ucchamp on Apr 28, 2024 10:49:08 GMT -5
Okay, so she climbed out from negative to positive. Sounds like her 2nd half was pretty productive. It's not clear to me where you're going with all this. You tried on the first page to argue that Ice had gained unproductive weight since high school which is clearly not the case: by the end of this year, she played herself into super basketball fitness, to the point of playing all 40 minutes in back-to-back games. Then you note her 1st year BPM was very low, but now admit that it went from negative to positive, meaning that the difference between these two numbers is in fact entirely positive and significantly higher than her overall annual BPM. So, your brief seems to be that Ice is a hope, not a plan. I disagree. Further, I see a huge amount of subtle movements, both on offense and defense that never get credited but which influence the outcome of plays. Look at Nika: on the numbers, with the exception of assists, not very impressive. But who doubts that her contributions to the team were remarkable? J On Nika, how many championships did she win? Huh? You are going to knock a player for not winning a title while ignoring all the injuries her team sustained? And yet she can get drafted as a poor in early rd 2 -- but you seem to think someone being drafted that early was not championship worthy if her team wasn't so decimated by injury?
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Post by swash on Apr 28, 2024 11:17:12 GMT -5
I would say 7 and 4, so we're pretty close in our assessment, and I am being gracious with that number. Those numbers will never get uconn a championship next season. We got 17 and 9 from Aayaliyah and she needed more help. So, tell me where the rest comes from? You will probably speculate Jana will do this or that. But again that is hopeful speculation for a player that hasn't played one game yet.In fact , Q had numbers equal to Ice with less playing time. IMO your expectations of Ice are out of whack with what most players coming to top teams which are posts actually perform to. Geno prefers fastbreak basketball. You know this as a diehard UCONN fan that you are. Pace of play matters for Bigs. Ice is behind the 8-ball this early in her career having to play fastbreak basketball. She isn't very fast/quick - so her game is going to take time. SO most imprtant for her was her shot. Well- she didn't shoot well early. So, yeah of course Q is going to have "numbers" equal to Q. UCONN was playing a guards-game wanting to push pace. And if oyu're a Big and you're shot ain't going in- you ain't gonna play unless you are super at something else. Her best attribute/strenght is her shot. As for who will the scoring come from to replace Edwards? It will come from Sarah. Sarah does not have to exactly match Aaliyah; because UCONN also has Azzi coming. And with another year KK and Ashlynn- - and it's doubtful the way everyone talks up Jana -- so yeah 7 pts and 4 rebounds is very fine. Good post. One quibble: don't forget Ice was coming off a major injury and had minimal offseason to prepare. I expect conditioning questions to be gone by the time games roll around. Even late this season, she was running the floor better. Also note that Geno had her inbounding the ball after most baskets, starting her way up the floor last. I thought that seemed silly when we had guard depth and only Aaliyah and Brady. Later, it was tougher to argue when the ranks thinned even further.
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Post by RoyDodger on Apr 28, 2024 16:23:00 GMT -5
J On Nika, how many championships did she win? Huh? You are going to knock a player for not winning a title while ignoring all the injuries her team sustained? And yet she can get drafted as a poor in early rd 2 -- but you seem to think someone being drafted that early was not championship worthy if her team wasn't so decimated by injury? While it is a very different sport, I'd just like to note the following among the greatest of baseball players who never won a championship: Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, Tony Gwynn, Harmon Killebrew, Ichiro Suzuki, and Nap Lajoie. Of course it often reflects the teams they were playing for. But need I mention that Nika Mühl played a very significant role on a team with a multitude of injuries and helped lead them to this year's Final Four despite those injuries. That sounds very much like a champion to me.
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Post by bulkey on Apr 28, 2024 16:57:45 GMT -5
I'm moving my own discussion of Jana's offensive position to this thread where it belongs. Jana is an absolutely remarkable player. But look at her floor game: she needs and wants space to operate. At the 4 she'll be absolutely unstoppable. Like her father, I'd hate to see her set up 15' from the basketball with her back to it. She's poetry in motion in the open floor.
Here are all of Jana's points: mostly foul shots. And it's frustrating because we can see how she sets up. But clearly, at times she's driving not only from the top of the key, but also from the side. The point is that Jana is a great shooter and a great rebounder, but she's not someone who sets up and dishes off.
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Post by doggydaddy on Apr 28, 2024 17:14:34 GMT -5
I'm moving my own discussion of Jana's offensive position to this thread where it belongs. Jana is an absolutely remarkable player. But look at her floor game: she needs and wants space to operate. At the 4 she'll be absolutely unstoppable. Like her father, I'd hate to see her set up 15' from the basketball with her back to it. She's poetry in motion in the open floor. Here are all of Jana's points: mostly foul shots. And it's frustrating because we can see how she sets up. But clearly, at times she's driving not only from the top of the key, but also from the side. The point is that Jana is a great shooter and a great rebounder, but she's not someone who sets up and dishes off. I saw plenty of in the paint moves. Her National team lists her as a center. Your highlights don't show defense but she does a great job defending the paint. She will play plenty of center for UConn.
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Post by semper on Apr 28, 2024 17:18:43 GMT -5
I LOVE this!!!!
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Post by bulkey on Apr 28, 2024 17:20:04 GMT -5
We agree on defense.
And we agree that she's excellent in the paint. Super aggressive, and she will get some offensive fouls and lose her temper (as she did in Europe) and learn. That's part of the process: way better to be too aggressive than not aggressive enough.
Where we disagree is where she'd be most effective on offense. Geno might well put her at the 5 and help her become a classic UConn high post. But look how beautifully she moves facing the basket, running the open court. I believe Ice will be an excellent 5 (sharing with Raegan, we hope), with her back to the basket, setting picks, distributing the ball. If that's the case, then with Jana at the 4 and Sarah eventually (the follow year) at the 3, it will be amazing.
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Post by doggydaddy on Apr 28, 2024 17:27:04 GMT -5
We agree on defense. And we agree that she's excellent in the paint. Super aggressive, and she will get some offensive fouls and lose her temper (as she did in Europe) and learn. That's part of the process: way better to be too aggressive than not aggressive enough. Where we disagree is where she'd be most effective on offense. Geno might well put her at the 5 and help her become a classic UConn high post. But look how beautifully she moves facing the basket, running the open court. I believe Ice will be an excellent 5, with her back to the basket, setting picks, distributing the ball. If that's the case, then with Jana at the 4 and Sarah eventually (the follow year) at the 3, it will be amazing. Geno really doesn't play the 5 as you are describing. Where did Stewart play? And she still plays center in the W even though listed as a forward. Top of the key,drives to the basket or passes down low or shoots the open three. Ice had plenty of open threes at the top of the key was was reluctent to shoot them. Lack of confidence. Aaliyah was definately a forward playing the 5. It's not where I think she will be most effective. It's where Geno thinks she is most effective. If we don't get Beers, El Alfy and Ice will split the center time on the court. There isn't anyone else.
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Post by ucchamp on Apr 28, 2024 17:36:40 GMT -5
We agree on defense. And we agree that she's excellent in the paint. Super aggressive, and she will get some offensive fouls and lose her temper (as she did in Europe) and learn. That's part of the process: way better to be too aggressive than not aggressive enough. Where we disagree is where she'd be most effective on offense. Geno might well put her at the 5 and help her become a classic UConn high post. But look how beautifully she moves facing the basket, running the open court. I believe Ice will be an excellent 5 (sharing with Raegan, we hope), with her back to the basket, setting picks, distributing the ball. If that's the case, then with Jana at the 4 and Sarah eventually (the follow year) at the 3, it will be amazing. IMO she neds her work at the 5. If she hangs outside she'll allow all the time smaller players to guard her in which she won't be quicker than them. And no one player is hot from the outside all the time. She needs to show that if a team puts someone small on her- that she can dominate and treat the smaller player like as the expression goes "mouse in the house." Sarah is 4.
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Post by bulkey on Apr 28, 2024 17:37:24 GMT -5
I do see your point about Jana, DD. When Stewie was a freshman, she played effectively with the classic post, Stef. And he had Liv play a more classic post.
But there's no reason not to have a 5-out (or "5-outish") type offense as it evolved when Stewie was there. Of course, Stewie was so quick and explosive that she could cover a lot of ground quickly from the outside.
But I do take your point. It's easily possible to envision Jana playing a 5, but a different sort of 5, especially if Geno wants to find major minutes for Sarah.
I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5.
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Post by ucchamp on Apr 28, 2024 17:48:30 GMT -5
I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5. Not exclusively but she must must learn to play with her back to the basket. And if Sarah were the 4 - she must learn to do it too. Not all centers need to learn that. Heck, even Paige learned to post a little. For Jana and Sarah - part of their ceiilng is dictated by how hard they are to guard. And being limited to only an outside shooter would limit them. These two could be like Stewie and Tuck. Both were also devastating inside in time.
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Post by doggydaddy on Apr 28, 2024 18:06:09 GMT -5
I do see your point about Jana, DD. When Stewie was a freshman, she played effectively with the classic post, Stef. And he had Liv play a more classic post. But there's no reason not to have a 5-out (or "5-outish") type offense as it evolved when Stewie was there. Of course, Stewie was so quick and explosive that she could cover a lot of ground quickly from the outside. But I do take your point. It's easily possible to envision Jana playing a 5, but a different sort of 5, especially if Geno wants to find major minutes for Sarah. I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5. U guess IK"m really not seeing your point. A 5 playing the top of the key is not unusual for UConn. Not only Stewart but Tina. And then they also post up. But each player is different and Geno will use their skills as he sees best based on how they mesh with the other four on the floor at the time. My mind is spinning from the possible combinations.
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Post by linkster on Apr 28, 2024 18:28:11 GMT -5
I do see your point about Jana, DD. When Stewie was a freshman, she played effectively with the classic post, Stef. And he had Liv play a more classic post. But there's no reason not to have a 5-out (or "5-outish") type offense as it evolved when Stewie was there. Of course, Stewie was so quick and explosive that she could cover a lot of ground quickly from the outside. But I do take your point. It's easily possible to envision Jana playing a 5, but a different sort of 5, especially if Geno wants to find major minutes for Sarah. I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5. I've read that Strong's passing is ++. If that's true then she would be another that would be great in a high post. She's a very good 3pt shooter. I think it's wrong to put a position label on players who can play inside and outside on offense. Strong may be listed as a wing but she may also be the best at posting up down low. With Strong, El Alfy and Brady all able to shoot from outside as well as post up inside UConn should be able to create a lot of miss-matches. I've said it elsewhere. Who plays, how much they play and where they play is going to depend a lot on their play at the defensive end.
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Post by swash on Apr 28, 2024 18:57:50 GMT -5
I do see your point about Jana, DD. When Stewie was a freshman, she played effectively with the classic post, Stef. And he had Liv play a more classic post. But there's no reason not to have a 5-out (or "5-outish") type offense as it evolved when Stewie was there. Of course, Stewie was so quick and explosive that she could cover a lot of ground quickly from the outside. But I do take your point. It's easily possible to envision Jana playing a 5, but a different sort of 5, especially if Geno wants to find major minutes for Sarah. I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5. U guess IK"m really not seeing your point. A 5 playing the top of the key is not unusual for UConn. Not only Stewart but Tina. And then they also post up. But each player is different and Geno will use their skills as he sees best based on how they mesh with the other four on the floor at the time. My mind is spinning from the possible combinations. Stewie almost never played center on offense mostly PF. Morgan and Kiah played the 5 at that end. Stewie did play the post defensively at times. Tina ... like Aaliyah ... needed to play C due to personnel
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Post by bulkey on Apr 28, 2024 19:04:02 GMT -5
I do see your point about Jana, DD. When Stewie was a freshman, she played effectively with the classic post, Stef. And he had Liv play a more classic post. But there's no reason not to have a 5-out (or "5-outish") type offense as it evolved when Stewie was there. Of course, Stewie was so quick and explosive that she could cover a lot of ground quickly from the outside. But I do take your point. It's easily possible to envision Jana playing a 5, but a different sort of 5, especially if Geno wants to find major minutes for Sarah. I would just hate to see Jana play with her back to the basket, but that's not necessarily how she would play the 5. I've read that Strong's passing is ++. If that's true then she would be another that would be great in a high post. She's a very good 3pt shooter. I think it's wrong to put a position label on players who can play inside and outside on offense. Strong may be listed as a wing but she may also be the best at posting up down low. With Strong, El Alfy and Brady all able to shoot from outside as well as post up inside UConn should be able to create a lot of miss-matches. I've said it elsewhere. Who plays, how much they play and where they play is going to depend a lot on their play at the defensive end. I guess where I get stuck is on the image of the high post, back to the basket, passing and setting picks. I don't doubt that Sarah could do anything she sets her mind to. But this wouldn't be the game I think she's best at. She deadly from the elbows at the 3 pt line and she lets to take people low. I agree that we have a number of players who can play post--in some ways and sometimes. I just don't think anyone besides Ice can play it like Stef or Liv played it, or even Dorka evolved to do it. Which is not necessarily important. Geno can scheme up a lot of mismatches with this personnel.
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Post by huskyharper on Apr 28, 2024 19:09:15 GMT -5
It's fun to fantasize about next season. I see Jana and Ice as the 4/5 with Strong as a 3/4. Depending on who's on the floor will determine who's playing what. The same can be said for positions 1, 2 and 3. Paige, Azzi, KK, Ash, Morgan, etc. Will be rotating in and out, not to mention Chen in the mix. Then there's Q, Aubrey and Caroline, playing somewhere between 2 and 4. Ayanna will be in that 4/5 mix, too. Who'd I miss? Definitely time to think hockey line changes!
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Post by jonathan on Apr 28, 2024 19:23:45 GMT -5
I think every 4 needs to be able to post upa defender. Ice got better at it. Jana will need to do it. Strong can probably already do it. Paige can do it! No one is asking for a one dimensional low post player. We just need someone that can defend someone like Betts and then post up on the other end from time to time. The 3, 4 and 5 players can roam on offense between the perimeter, the high post and the low post. There will be pick and roll, pick and pop and slip screens. These can utilize shooting skills, mobility, ball handling skills and passing skills. Watch how the men played. Even our 5 will spend a lot of time on the perimeter.
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